previous: Voices from the Dust: February 1996

from Dr. Cyril Port (c██████@t███████.com)
1 Mar 96, 6:08 p.m.

You have been blessed with a voice -- the kind of voice which those of us who have decided to "leave the Church" have needed for a long time. I voluntarily joined the L.D.S. Church when suffering from severe loneliness and depression, and it's been only now, when I am becoming emotionally and spiritually whole, that I can see how clouded my judgment and reason was at the time.

Now that I'm leaving, I find that I'm not the only one who's consciously decided that they've outgrown Mormonism. Meeting another kindred soul like you gives me hope that somehow, collectively, we can appreciate the positive things Mormonism did for us, while rejecting the negative aspects of the subculture and lifestyle.

My disagreements with the Church aren't theological as much as they are a conscious recognition that my paradigm for living no longer matches that of the Church. Sometimes, I feel as if I've been living in a cave the past eight years (since I joined) and am seeing that there are better things out in the sunlight. The cave was nice for a time, but the drawings on the walls became too limiting -- they no longer described my experiences as a man and as a human being.

My brother-in-law, who is going through much the same experiences as I am, told me the other day, "Living without absolute truth really makes you feel unsure about things, doesn't it? But I wouldn't trade the freedom for the security of the constraints on my mind and heart."

That's about how I feel. It was nice, for a time, to be surrounded with the absolutes of the Mormon doctrines and subculture. In that respect, I can appreciate what Mormonism did for me. But the dysfunctional ways in which the organization and subculture operate far outweigh its ability to provide a cohesive lifestyle and worldview.

As my faith and life as a Christian mature, I feel less threatened by absolutes than I once did. If the god of Mormonism is, indeed, the "one true god," then he can have heaven all to himself. I couldn't imagine spending eternity with that sort of dysfunctional omnipotent deity. I suspect that God is bigger than anyone imagines him to be.

And another thing -- I've come to appreciate the finer things of life, now that I am free of the intellectual and spiritual shackles of Mormonism: Starbuck's, espresso, café mocha, and sitting under the stars with a sense of awe at the beauty and symmetry of the universe (preferrably with a coffee drink from Starbuck's).

Peace, and best wishes in your journey.

Well said, Cyril. One thing I suspect few believing Mormons will ever credit is the fact that there is a healthy, happy, emotionally functional life available outside of the Church. I'm glad you're finding it, and I wish you only the best.

from Mohandas Grundi (m███████@s██.edu)
4 Mar 96, 8:28 a.m.

I wouldn't call it awake, but rather sleepwalking. I hope you didn't think I was referring to spiritual experiences as "righteous chills." If that is what you based your testimony on, then there is no reason to say anything else -- I know why you've fallen away. One of the great biases of the anti-Mormon literature is that it seems to focus in on the people with the weak testimonies. I guess if I didn't know what I know, hadn't seen what I've seen, hadn't read what I've read, or hadn't done what I've done, I'd be wavered [sic] too.

Shunn, I've empirically proven the existence of God, and I know without question which church on earth is his. If you're interested in finding out and knowing for certain, let me know and I'll be more than happy to give you the recipe. I know the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints to be the true gospel of the Savior -- but of course you've heard that all before.

First off, what I cited before were "rightness chills," not "righteous chills." If the difference in meaning escapes you, then I suggest you hie yourself to the nearest dictionary and figure out how you've misread my remarks.

Second, you obviously weren't paying attention when I said other people's writings had very little effect on my apostasy. In fact, only one short essay contributed at all -- "God and I" by Teresa Nielsen Hayden (Making Book, NESFA Press) -- an editor and thinker whom I happen to respect greatly. If my sympathy for Teresa's work means I had a weak testimony of the Church, then I'm hardly ashamed to plead guilty as charged. In my view, confessing a strong testimony is not much better than taking pride in a brainwashing well done. I won't fault you for it, but don't expect it to impress me.

Lastly, I'm sure a lot of us would be interested in hearing your empirical proof of God's existence. If you can convince me you're right, I'll gladly eat my hat.

("If I didn't know what I know, hadn't seen what I've seen . . . ?" In other words, if you weren't you, then you'd be a different person? Gracious, what an empty semantic assertion.)

from an anonymous reader (/dust/1996/03/voices-from-the-dust-march-1996.html)
4 Mar 96, 12:34 p.m.

Wow! Your mission story is unreal. Strangely enough, I can believe it. I've been through enough weird things myself to know that there's no way something like that can be fabricated. Thanks for posting all of it. I keep coming back for each new chapter and plan to link this to my own page.

The truth is certainly stranger than fiction -- which is an extremely uncomfortable assertion for a science-fiction writer to be making, since inventing strangeness is supposed to be my business. Thanks for reading!

from Edwina (/dust/1996/03/voices-from-the-dust-march-1996.html)
4 Mar 96, 1:31 p.m.

I appreciate your help in getting manuscripts published. As a hopefully budding author, any advice I can get is a lifeline. At this time I am simply developing characters for a novel I plan to write. Thank you for taking the time to provide helpful advice.

You're absolutely welcome, Edwina -- and a million million thanks for writing to tell me so! Bless you! I hope to keep adding to the site here, so I hope you'll stop back often and see what's new. And best of luck with the writing! I hope from time to time you'll let me know how it's going.

from this anonymous reader (/dust/1996/03/voices-from-the-dust-march-1996.html)
5 Mar 96, 9:01 p.m.

I just wanted to add a few comments to my email of February 21. First, I find it annoying that the L.D.S. Church spends so much time and effort trying to keep members active who are consciously stealing away. I wish we'd just leave that up to each individual, without using the subtle forms of coercion that are all too prevalent in the Church. But having said that, most organizations -- from churches to professional associations, from Amway to magazine subscription services -- use most of the same methods to attempt to preserve their membership or clientele. It's part of the basic nature of organizations, particularly those which are preoccupied with statistics -- like the L.D.S. Church, which must keep growing, at however slow a rate, to maintain the credibility of its stated purposes.

I have read all of the stories on your page and Eric Kettunen's page from ex-members of the Church. I respect those -- including you -- who have made a reasoned choice to leave the Church. However, in some cases it's fairly obvious that the people in question first left the Church not because they concluded it was false, but because either (a) someone offended them, or (b) they found the burdens of membership (i.e., time, money, giving up habits) to be overwhelming. Then, feeling insecure, they sought to rationalize their decision by finding pretexts for believing they had just escaped from a demonic, mind-controlling "cult." Needless to say, it's hard for most active members of the Church to respect such intellectual dishonesty and self-justification.

A good example is a woman who lives in my neighborhood. After being a member of the L.D.S. Church for several years, she apostatized and later wrote a rather virulent anti-Mormon book (which contains the obligatory first-person description of the endowment ceremony, despite the fact that she apparently never went through the temple herself -- go figure). To hear her talk, one would conclude that God sent her the man who's now her husband to convince her of the error of her Mormon ways; however, from what I understand, there's a lot more to the story than that. It turns out that she had an L.D.S. boyfriend who went on a mission and who, in a strange role reversal, later wrote her off with a "Dear Jane." Thereafter, she magically decided the Church wasn't true! Are we to believe that being dumped by her ex-boyfriend had nothing to do with that? (Ironically, the ex-boyfriend is now a general authority, which points up how fine a line it can be between being the wife of a Mormon general authority and being the bitter author of anti-Mormon literature!)

I have no doubt that many people are much happier after leaving the Church, regardless of their reasons for leaving. I myself have often wondered what it would be like to be free of the commitments and guilt trips I have as a member. However, I do wish more people would be honest about what prompted their departure.

Thanks for the perspective. I'd have to agree with you that intellectual honesty is the best criterion for deciding how much credence to lend a critic's point of view. I'm afraid most cases aren't as obvious as the one you cite, though. Would that all were. (Of course, I myself, he said self-deprecatingly, never had any success looking for love inside the Church . . .)

from an anonymous reader (/dust/1996/03/voices-from-the-dust-march-1996.html)
6 Mar 96, 12:23 p.m.

Five easy ways to leave the Mormon Church:

1. Commit suicide. This is clearly the easiest and least messy of all the ways to leave the Mormon Church. It's short and quick and when you're through you feel no guilt and no remorse. In committing suicide, you must do it in a way that looks like an accident, since killing oneself is a serious sin in the Mormon Church, and, while being called a sinner may not have much impact on you, you don't want the remaining members of your family to suffer the shame that comes from having a family member who is a sinner.

2. Get your name off the record books by feigning death. This is best done in conjunction with a move to a new community. Tell the ward clerk you are moving to Phoenix. Give him or her the name of your new ward but not your address. Instead of moving to Phoenix, however, you move to Seattle or San Diego. After about three months, write a letter to the ward clerk in Phoenix and tell them that you are writing on behalf of your brother who was wiped out with his entire family in a car accident on their way to live in Phoenix and that you would like to make a $25 contribution in their name to the organ fund. To make it sound authentic, testify that you know there was a reason God called the family home and that you hope no one in the ward will mourn their deaths because they are much happier where they are now than when they were on this earth being tested. The ward clerk will then mark "deceased" on your records and send them to Salt Lake City.

3. Feign adultery. First, ask your wife if she can survive having everyone in the ward believe that she is married to an adulterer. This is necessary, since there's about a fifty-percent chance that, if you tell the bishop in confidence, he will tell his counselors in confidence, who will tell their wives in confidence, who will tell their best friends in confidence, and soon everyone will know in confidence that her husband is an adulterer. Once you've got her okay for this approach, go to your bishop and tell him in the strictest confidence that you are having a torrid love affair with a person you work with in another state. If you like the bishop and want to give him a little thrill, fill him in on all the lurid details. When he asks you to repent, tell him you've tried but the attraction is just too strong. He will then take steps to have you removed.

4. Feign being gay. Similar to the scenario above, but tell the bishop you've got a crush on him and in the next breath ask if he doesn't have just a little bit of feeling for you. When he denies this, give him a kiss on the cheek. You'll be off the rolls before he can wipe your lip print off his cheek.

5. Have your own revelations. Have a revelation about your family. Tell how you prayed about a problem -- which job offer to accept is a good one -- and the angel Moroni's son came and gave you the answer, just as his father, the older angel Moroni, gave the answer to Joseph Smith when he had a problem. This will work because no one really believes in real revelations any more. They believe in warm feelings that communicate messages by seeping through the consciousness after fasting and prayer, but notin an honest-to-goodness personage-from-heaven revelation. So when you claim to have had a visit from heaven, it puts them in a real quandry. You're either more spiritual and in-tune with God than they are, or you are a crackpot. If they take longer than a month to decide, have another revelation. If they still delay, have a new revelation every month. You'll be out on your ear in no time. And you can say, "Hey, how can you blame me? I was just doing what I'm supposed to do."

I can hardly see to type this reply, I'm laughing so hard. Good advice for desperate people. Or desperate advice for good people. Or something.

from Charles Dowis (d████.███████@a███████.██████.███.███.███.com)
6 Mar 96, 1:50 p.m.

I feel that your lexicon entry on "higher law" could be misleading to some of your readers. I have a recommendation to clarify this entry:

higher law, a

Some Mormons feel that it is okay to occasionally bend or even break the law to "further the cause of Zion." This attitude is strongly frowned upon by Church authorities. Joseph Smith said . . . et cetera.

Anyway, I want to tell you how much I enjoyed your story. Even though you left the Church, you show none of the "axe grinding" so prevalant among ex-Mormons. Your attitude is very refreshing.

Best regards.

My glossary entry says precisely what I intended it to say, but your objection is duly noted. Thanks for writing, and thanks for the kind words. They're much appreciated. It's good to know that I'm not just preaching to the choir.

from Jeremy Gilbert (v████@m██.net)
6 Mar 96, 3:25 p.m.

This is in reply to Mohandas Grundi's letter, written on the 4th of March, and about proving the existence of God.

I can see no way that the existence of God can be "proven." I am a United Methodist and have been since I was born. I have tried many times to justify how such an infinite being could exist. I believe in God. I cannot, however, prove that He exists other than citing the Bible or a few sketchy scientific "facts." I put facts in quotes because less than five percent of scientific "fact" has been proven without a doubt. Science only has facts until someone else proves that "fact" wrong.

Back to proving God's existence. Can you comprehend an infinite being? I doubt it. An infinite being such as God has the ability to do anything, be anywhere, know everything. Is it possible for the Mormon God to be everywhere at once? Not according to my Mormon friends. Okay, back on task here. There are things in this universe that we cannot comprehend, such as an infinite being or the edge of the universe. What is beyond the edge of the universe? Hey, that would make a great SF book. Is there nothing? Or is it a wall? Can you comprehend nothing? Show me nothing. In the same way we cannot justify the existence of God. We can only believe in God, which implies that He exists. I also would like to see Mr. Grundi's proof that God exists. I would also like to know why he thinks the Mormon doctrines are the only true works of God. But that's another topic for another day.

The very fact that we believe in God does not prove His existence. Not even half this world's population believes in God. Think about that. If God did truly exist and he wanted to save as many people as possible, wouldn't everyone believe in the same God?

Hmm. Tha last bit sounds like you're arguing against the existence of God. I mean, not even everyone who believes in God believes in the same god. Still with you, though, Jeremy, in waiting for that empirical proof of God's existence. <twiddling my thumbs>

from Melanie Kersey (k█████@c█████.██.uk)
8 Mar 96, 11:33 a.m.

Hello, William. This my third attempt at writing you a letter. I'm new to all this technology, living here in the wilds of Wales U.K.

I had to write and tell you that your site is excellent! Especially am I enjoying your Terror stories. I have laughed until the tears ran down my legs!

Hello to all the ex-morons like myself out there. :-)

Hope this reaches you. If it does, I'll write more next time. See you.

The third time's the charm, Melanie. Glad to have our friends across the "pond" checking in. And I'm glad to know your enjoying the story. Hope you keep reading. (Now, was that a veiled Led Zeppelin reference I caught there?)

from Sandy Richards (s█████@a██████.com)
8 Mar 96, 12:01 p.m.

Last night I read your chapters from The Revivalist -- loved it! Finish it, get it published, I wanna read it all! I have been addicted to SF ever since the book club mistakenly sent me a copy of The Stand about sixteen years ago. I also enjoyed your story "From Our Point of View We Had Moved to the Left" -- it was well-written, and it appealed to the political activist (anarchist?) in me.

One request . . . please hurry and finish Terror on Flight 789. This one-chapter-a-day thing is killing me (and the first thing my husband asks upon my return home from a hard day at the office is "Is there another chapter? Give it to me now!"). Yeah, I know you have a job and a life, but hey, you're responsible for getting us all hooked on this real-life adventure!

A fortunate accident, that book club mixup. Thanks for the kind words about my stuff. The Revivalist is actually finished -- as soon as it finds a home, you'll be one of the first to hear the piercing shriek of triumph.

from Joseph K. Tsai (j████@e█.████.edu)
8 Mar 96, 5:56 p.m.

Loud laughter does not necessarily entail any blatant acts of laughing. In fact, laughing does the body good. However, making jokes about Church doctrines or any sacred item falls within the realm of loud laughter. We can make light of human frailties, but when we joke or laugh about God or something in relation to God, we mock Him.

Gee, I guess I owe God a big fat apology. Sorry.

Actually, Brother Tsai, I have to thank you, for taking that patented condescending Sunday School teacher tone here rather than out-and-out calling me to repentance for making light of sacred things. I guess I've missed feeling like a six-year-old. But tell me this: how does the phrase "loud laughter" imply what you've set forth above? Why doesn't it simply imply what it says? For that matter, how do we make the leap from "hot drinks" in the Word of Wisdom to coffee and tea but not hot chocolate or Lipton Cup-o-Noodles? Why, if the word of God is so plain, as the Book of Mormon contends, do we need doctrinal authorities to translate it for us and tell us what it really means?

Laughter is good for the body, yes -- but so is a nightly glass of wine, and you don't see the Mormon Church permitting that . . .

[Editor's note, 6/16/97: The "loud laughter" topic arose because that was the name of the Mormon humor area of my old Web site.]

from an anonymous reader (/dust/1996/03/voices-from-the-dust-march-1996.html)
8 Mar 96, 8:32 p.m.

I am appalled at your Mormon comments. After going through the temple, then leaving the Church, you should be disappointed with yourself! I hope and pray you will come back. I know you've had a burning testimony, but Satan got you at a vulnerable time. Read your patriarchal blessing, pray. It will help.

Hic! ('Scuse me. Just a little burning testimony there.)

I am disappointed with myself -- disappointed that it took me so long to recognize all the plexiglas barriers that Mormonism had thrown up between me and real personal freedom and happiness. As for my patriarchal blessing . . . well, I intend no disrespect to my grandfather -- a good and sincere man, and the giver of my blessing -- but the thing is so vague it could be telling me virtually anything. Kind of like a horoscope or a fortune cookie, but on a grander scale.

(Isn't it interesting how the exercise of freedom of thought so often gets labelled as a Satanic act? Little wonder that intellectuals get purged from the Church.)

from Dann Wollet (d██████@v██████.net)
10 Mar 96, 1:07 a.m.

Mr. Shunn, I've just finished reading Terror on Flight 789 and I just wanted to thank you. I would get home in the morning (third shift, don't you know), and the first thing I would look for is the next installment. You have a fine way of turning life's experiences into enjoyable reading.

I don't know too much about the L.D.S. Church, but, from what I've read and from conversations with others on the subject of organized religon in general, I don't see them as being that much different from all the others. Most of the religious communities I have seen rely on the same tactics -- fear and guilt seem to top the list -- to hold their followers in line with whatever they are teaching. The fact that most of this is done in the name of God and/or his divine will annoys me to no end. I do not have a problem beleiving in God. I too have "seen what I've seen, know what I know," and so forth. I find that I have a hard time believing in man's version of God. It sounds like a bunch of spoiled little children arguing an expanded version of "Mom likes me best."

I am not condemning anyone for his or her beliefs. All that I ask is for them not to condemn me for mine. I look forward to reading more of your writings.

You know, I think you've come up with the best analogy I've heard yet for the way religions argue with each other about what is true. Sibling rivalry, indeed. Maybe they should all be spanked and sent to bed. ;) Sounds to me like a better punishment for ecclesiastical folk than for children.

from Michael T. Richter (m██@i██.net)
10 Mar 96, 5:36 p.m.

Well, the long saga is finally over. That was one hell of a ride you gave us, Mr. Shunn. I'm not sure whether I should be laughing at you or with you. I guess youth just does these sorts of things to you, eh?

I have to concur with the more intelligent of your correspondents. It is nice to see that, in spite of the obvious trace quantities of bitterness, you seem to have survived your "ordeal" with the Mormons with your sense of humour intact. I only hope I have one tenth the panache if I ever undergo a crisis of faith of my own!

I would be very interested in reading the conclusion of your other epic: "The Road to Apostasy." While Terror on Flight 789 was an entertaining read, it isn't as informative as "The Road to Apostasy" promises to be. You are an intelligent and observant commentator with a gift for words. I'm interested in the thought processes that lead you to leaving the religion of your birth.

Thanks for making a Web site worth keeping on my hot list.

(Was there enough flattery in the above text to get this message placed in "Voices from the Dust"?) :-)

More than enough, Michael. ;) Actually, now that I've gotten the mission story out of the way, I'm ready to dive back into the tale of disbelief and apostasy. Thanks for your interest, and watch for new installments to start appearing there soon.

from Debby Williams (d██████@i█.██████.com)
11 Mar 96, 11:52 a.m.

As a former "eternal investigator," I must say your page was hysterical . . . and very insightful. In a relatively unbiased manner, you were able to explain the reasoning behind these missions. It takes courage and self-insight to be able to do what you did. Hopefully, now you've found peace.

Thanks, Debby. I'm acheiving a greater measure of it every day -- thanks in part to supportive letters like yours. I'm glad you wrote.

from Rachel (c██████@a██.com)
11 Mar 96, 5:40 p.m.

Do you think that anyone has ever just blurted out during one of those ridiculous temple ceremonies, "We look like a bunch of freaks with our chef hats and aprons, and how can a handshake give us all eternal salvation?!" I think that the veil thing is just for perverts to "cop a feel."

I was born in the Mormon Church. My parents were married in the Salt Lake temple, we attended all of the Church meetings, etc., etc. However, I never really believed -- just went along out of fear. I left for no paticular reason other than I was a self-thinker. I found that most Mormons were like sheep. Actually, the whole thing is like the children's story "The Emperor's New Clothes" -- filled with guilt and fear!

I can remember one sacrament meeting where the bishop stood up in front of the congregation and made a proclamation: "From this day forward (I don't remember his exact words), no longer will unmarried couples be allowed to ride to choir practice together alone." (No coed carpooling!) My friend Debbie's mother had had an affair with another member's husband, and they rode to choir practice together!

I am sad, though, that my family is so brainwashed! They truly believe that my son and I are doomed forever! They continue to send the missionaries to my door, they send us continual copies of the Book of Mormon, and they just won't let go. They won't accept us, yet they won't let us go! I remember on one occasion I had a conversation with my mother expressing my happiness; her response was, "Satan gives blessings too, you know."

I pity those who blindly follow no matter what it is.

Peace.

I'm here giggling to myself, picturing your imagined temple scene as a Far Side cartoon. I'm sorry to hear about the difficulties with your family. They sound all too familiar. Here's wishing you a magical change in your relatives.

from Kevin H. Kartchner (/dust/1996/03/voices-from-the-dust-march-1996.html)
12 Mar 96, 11:09 a.m.

Just dropping you a line to let you know that people are reading your fiction in addition to the biographical stuff on your Mormon Matter page. "From Our Point of View We Had Moved to the Left" is a chilling look at what might happen if our society were to become even more polarized than it currently is; perhaps if you were writing it now, you might have named the president . . . Buchanan? I loved the wry little reference from Dr. Strangelove to "precious bodily fluids" -- that one bit goes a long way in defining Wheelock.

"Colin and Ishmael In the Dark" is, indeed, reminiscent of Poe's "The Cask of Amontillado" -- from the meticulously plotted scheme to obtain revenge, to the importance of the exclamation "For the love of God!" The setting -- pitch darkness -- and Colin's resulting helplessness, however, add a dimension of fear and uncertainty that Poe lacks.

As I was reading "Colin and Ishmael," it also reminded me of an episode I saw on Night Gallery when I was younger, in which a brutish man is lured into spending the night in a house owned by another man whom the first man has injured or insulted. The first man encounters a number of "apparitions" and other devices calculated to scare him to death, including something that "bites" him on the shoulder. He survives the night, but the owner of the house convinces him -- via two-way television -- that the "bite" he received the night before will dissolve his bones and turn him into a slithering mass of jelly. The first man then shoots himself to foil the owner's plan, but then it becomes clear that achieving the man's suicide was the owner's intent in the first place. Do you remember that episode?

Unfortunately, no. I'm just barely old enough to remember being forbidden to watch Night Gallery but watching it anyway -- and of course having nightmares afterward. But I can't recall any one episode. This must have contributed to the way I turned out, though. :) Thanks for the kind words.

from an anonymous reader (/dust/1996/03/voices-from-the-dust-march-1996.html)
12 Mar 96, 3:27 p.m.

Regarding "4. Feign being gay":

When I was looking for decent ways to get out of my calling of Young Men's President, a friend of mine (a very active Mormon who doesn't believe in the Church anymore) suggested that I tell the bishop that the boys were starting to look attractive. :) I got out of the "calling," but used a different approach.

:) A truly inspirational story.

from Kim Hill (h███@c██.███.ca)
13 Mar 96, 11:52 a.m.

So you're the jerk who called in that bomb threat! Don't know if you're aware of this, but you made national news. I remember hearing about it while in Toronto. Coincidentally, that was about the time when I was beginning my investigation of the Church -- which I have since left.

I really enjoyed reading your narrative. I've met plenty of missionaries in the last seven years, and I've always wondered what they really got up to when no one was around.

I'd like to know more about your "Road to Apostasy." Interesting thing about the Church is that the members are always crying out against being persecuted for their beliefs, as though this were still the 1830's. More interesting is how, when you make the rational decision to leave, these same members are quick to make assumptions and persecute you for leaving the pod. Free agency is only valid if you stay with the group. Too bad those that flame or deride your honesty can't recognize the hypocrisy of their actions.

You're an ex-missionary, so tell me something: When I was being sold on the Church, I was told that the "still, small voice" I heard was the Holy Ghost, and you are confirmed with this gift at your baptism. The non-member's term for this "voice" is your conscience. If you had this "voice" prior to being baptised, how can they take it away when they excommunicate you? Or am I confused over the issue? Just seems silly to me.

Other than that, I think your pages here are great. I've bookmarked Mormon Matter and I'll be returning often. Now I'll have to go and check out the rest of your page.

Yes, I'm the . . . ahem, well, yes, that was me. I knew the news had gone national, but I hadn't ever met anyone who had heard the story from elsewhere in Canada than Alberta. It was big news in Utah, too -- and I understand that I'm something of an urban legend at the M.T.C. The instructors use me as an example of something not to do when your companion wants to run away.

To address your question, Mormons make a very nit-picky distinction between the "light of Christ" -- which is what they would claim equals a conscience in higher mammals like us -- and the "gift of the Holy Ghost," which is only available to confirmed members of the Church. The light of Christ is supposedly available to all -- except those who have corrupted themselves to a mind-numbing degree -- whereas the promptings of the Holy Ghost are available to non-members only on a catch-as-catch-can basis, and as a way of leading them toward the "truth" of the Restored Gospel. The Church teaches that only after baptism and confirmation will the Holy Ghost be with you as a constant companion, not just to help you tell right from wrong, but to help you make sound decisions after investigating all sides of some problem -- to help you select between alternatives when "right" and "wrong" are not really part of the equation. (It's sort of like having a spiritual Magic 8-Ball on your shoulder.) The differences in meaning are fine, but important to Mormons.

I shall be interested to see if I really feel like I'm missing anything once I finally get myself excommunciated. I'll be sure to report.

from an anonymous reader (/dust/1996/03/voices-from-the-dust-march-1996.html)
13 Mar 96, 5:15 p.m.

Bravo! What a terrific story! Thank you! I'm not a member of the Mormon Church, but my sister-in-law (husband's sis) has been duped by her husband's religion. And now their three (so far) kids are growing up in this mess.

My immediate problem is with the Church of Scientology. Have you read about their bizzare battles with the Internet? Check it out. You will be equally intrigued! My husband's company is a major internet provider in [a major American city], and they are getting hassled by members of the Church of Scientology. I expect to be followed and harrassed soon.

Anyway . . . thank you so much for the story! How wonderful the Internet is, for we don't have to join to be informed! Hopefully the Net will deter a lot of innocent people! Good luck in all you do!

(My band use to play at stake dances, and I never knew until now what the Mormons believed in. Incredible -- it is such a huge church with so many zombies.)

"One of us . . . one of us . . ." Just kidding. :)

from Bob Carlson (c██████@c███.com)
14 Mar 96, 9:28 a.m.

Well, I wasn't able to complete Terror on Flight 789 until this morning, as I've been out of town with no convenient Web access. I enjoyed it very much -- thanks. I look forward to reading "The Road to Apostasy" as well.

A returning (I assume) missionary was on my flight to Seattle yesterday, still in suit and name tag, and that reminded me that I had a theory on why you, as a missionary, called your full dress suit by the term "whites." It may come from the Navy -- U.S. Naval officers, as you probably know, wear a "dress white uniform" or "whites" on more formal occasions ("There's an Admiral's reception this afternoon, Lieutenant Shunn -- be here in your whites"), and khaki-colored uniforms for ordinary duty. Perhaps a mission president somewhere was ex-Navy, and introduced the term?

I hope you reestablish your friendship with Flake again -- maybe your page will help.

Hey, a very possible and cogent explanation. (And I'm flattered by the pastiche you've done of my glossary style! Very good!)

And thanks for the kind thought about David Flake. That would be very nice indeed.

from Jennifer McKenzie (j███████@i█.███.ca)
14 Mar 96, 11:19 a.m.

I think that you have quite the impressive collection but am stunned that out of all the Billy Joel CDs you didn't have Glass Houses. I'm also shocked that you don't possess any Elvis Presley CDs. After all, he is the king of rock and roll, and he always will be. There were also some other people missing from your collection that are great artists. Overall, I must admit that I'm still impressed with your collection, and I hope to have a great collection someday. I will make sure that I have the Elvis CDs though. :)

Hey, even the Louvre can't have every da Vinci. But I'm working on it. :)

from Chris Louis Saberton (/dust/1996/03/voices-from-the-dust-march-1996.html)
16 Mar 96, 10:42 p.m.

I was a member for about ten years. It still feels odd, but I had to leave for the betterment of both me and the Church.

The betterment of you, I'm sure, but the impoverishment of the Church. Thanks for writing.

from an anonymous reader (/dust/1996/03/voices-from-the-dust-march-1996.html)
17 Mar 96, 7:57 p.m.

Reading about your escapades in Canada has unleashed dormant emotions and recollections that I have not reflected on since my own mission, which started some sixteen years ago this month.

Short of calling in bomb threats, my experiences were quite similar . . . from a mission president who addressed every elder's problems by personally giving him Vitamin B shots and telling them to lay off sugar, to a companion who had serious conversations with his hair dryer each morning.

My two cents on the Mormon faith and its teachings: The rituals and indoctrination I received as a child have made me the person I am today, and I think I could have done a lot worse.

As for all religion, two things:

A Buddhist monk whom I met on my mission said the following: "Elder [so-and-so], there are many paths to the top of Mount Fuji. We will meet at the top when we both complete our different journeys!"

And the other from that great sensei Mr. Miyagi of the "epic" movie The Karate Kid:

"Daniel-San, life must have balance!"

I think I could have done better for a philosophy, personally, but I certainly shan't argue with your perspective. If there is anything to the afterlife, then I suspect your friend the monk is exactly correct. I also suspect that many people will be there who didn't even realize they were climbing a mountain.

from a reader who has since requested anonymity (/dust/1996/03/voices-from-the-dust-march-1996.html)
18 Mar 96, 6:23 p.m.

Best of luck to you. I hope that your mind alone without your heart serves you well. As for myself, I value the quiet times when I realize just how lucky I have been to have a set of beliefs that help me realize my potential, spiritually, physically, and intellectually.

You sadly overestimate the worth of your own beliefs if they lead you to conclude that I'm living my life without a heart. Of course, if possession of a heart is what leads you to write such a condescending, high-handed, and smug note, then I'd be just as happy to do without one, thanks.

from an anonymous reader (/dust/1996/03/voices-from-the-dust-march-1996.html)
24 Mar 96, 7:16 p.m.

This isn't really in the way of formal feedback, but I hope to see more of your story "The Road to Apostasy" displayed on your web page. I feel as though I'm going through my own evaluative period currently and it's interesting to see so many parallels between your views and experiences with Mormonism and my own. It's tough to have the courage to face some of the things you have to rethink in questioning your religion. I've been glad for the support of knowing that others have trod a similar road.

That's what this site and others like it are here for. Best of luck in your continued quest.

from Rose Sinclair (r███████@p██████.█████.edu)
25 Mar 96, 9:02 p.m.

I have had two sons serve missions. One of them had a great experience; the other one did not. The one with the time well spent went only after considering if that was what he really wanted to do. Part of the problems with missionaries who run into problems could be that they shouldn't have gone in the first place. My other son is impulsive and also is bipolar, which we did not learn about until recent times. No, I am not saying you have a mental problem! I just feel there is a multitude of reasons for why missionaries never completely get into what they supposedly left home to do.

What I want to say is, if the Mormon Church causes you problems, just let that part of your life die and leave it behind. My inactive son bores us with his anti-mission stories. Telling them doesn't make him feel any better, and we've heard the stories a hundred times. He can't seem to let go -- he just rehashes it and makes himself feel worse. Do your health some good and get on with your life. Develope a new interest in something that has a future in it and will bring you some joy.

Time to get off my soapbox! Good luck.

My health? What, you think this is all I do with my time? Please. I'm a computer programmer and a science fiction writer, and I have plenty of other interests as well.

I can't speak to any of your son's problems, but I do know this -- you can't judge my case on the basis of any of real or imagined hangups you ascribe to him. I find very disturbing the sort of philosophy, so rampant in the Church, that teaches people that problems will go away if we sweep them under the rug.

I'm sorry -- silence on this subject would be a terrible spiritual poison to me. If you can't abide the atmosphere of openness and honesty here, then point your browser somewhere else. Or better yet -- really listen to your "wayward" son and stop invalidating his perspective. Maybe then he'll have the support he needs to move past the bad experiences that have obviously hurt him deeply.

from an anonymous reader (/dust/1996/03/voices-from-the-dust-march-1996.html)
26 Mar 96, 10:35 a.m.

First off, I loved the Jimmy Buffett reference. I too am a Parrot Head. I congratulate you on your successful escape! I am not a Mormon and never was -- but two missionaries and my girlfriend's parents tried to make me into one. I have fended them off. There was a time when I didn't think it was too bad, and I figured I would convert so we could get married. The more they told me, though, the less I wanted to know. Thank you for the Web site. Too many innocent people are getting sucked in.

Amen. I'm glad you made it through. You only need to glance through some of these letters to know that it's much more difficult to free yourself from the Church once you've started a family.

from Ken (/dust/1996/03/voices-from-the-dust-march-1996.html)
26 Mar 96, 10:38 a.m.

Please don't think I am ignorant, but a couple of people (myself included) were talking about Mormons and the missionaries and stuff. What I was wondering is this: A lot of the time, you see the missionaries on bikes, and wearing suits. Is there a reason they ride bikes? Are those provided by the church, or is that some type of requirement when you are trying to get people to convert?

Any response would be appreciated.

No problem. I never rode a bike on my mission myself -- except for one fateful week I may write about someday -- so I don't know for certain that the Church issues them, but I imagine that's the case. The bottom line is that missionaries -- at least in the U.S. -- are given access to whatever form of transportation is most efficient for the area in which they serve. Some drive cars, some ride bikes, and others take the bus. It all depends. The ones on bikes are simply more visible, thinks I.

from an anonymous reader (/dust/1996/03/voices-from-the-dust-march-1996.html)
26 Mar 96, 11:44 a.m.

Congratulations on getting out of the church at age twenty-eight with no dependents. It's much more difficult when you are forty, live in Utah (a very conservative and close-minded part of it), and have raised four teenagers in Mormonism. Thankfully, my oldest son does not intend to serve a mission. After studying the D&C in seminary, he doesn't believe in the Church. He's very bright. I am still what I call a "social Mormon," a term which I think probably applies to a number of members in Utah.

Thanks for an exceptionally entertaining Web page and for being a sounding board. If you find this interesting enough to use, please keep my identity anonymous, because, as you know, it is neither "politically correct" nor "socially acceptable" to express disbelief.

I thank my lucky stars continually that I never succumbed to the marriage temptation while still a member of the Church. You seem to be raising an intelligent brood, however, judging from your eldest, and I wish you continued good luck.

from John Andrews (j█████@i█.██████.com)
27 Mar 96, 12:58 a.m.

Hello, I'm an active Mormon and I love your pages! Funny stuff! I guess you could say that I'm a bit on the, um, liberal (shhh . . . don't tell my bishop) side of things.

Anyhow, I just wanted to let you know how much I appreciate your page. Pat Bagley is too much. Have you seen his latest book, Hannah the No-Cow Wife? It's good -- not comedy, but a children's story stemming from that horrid Mormon Johnny Lingo cultural-tradition thing. The laughable aspects of Mormon life are what I love most about the Church. I know, that's a pretty weak place to start a testimony, but hell -- you've got to start somewhere!

Enough rambling. Keep up the good work!

Sadly, I'm far away from where Pat Bagley books are readily available. I'll have to check into mail-ordering it. Anything that skewers Johnny Lingo is okay in my book.

from Levi Gunderson (l██████@p███████.com)
29 Mar 96, 3:27 p.m.

Ah, yes . . . As the son of a returned missionary (my father) and a B.Y.U. "coed" (my mother), I was fortunate enough to have been born into absolute truth. It sure makes life easier that way, doesn't it? All the tough answers to life were given to me as a birthright, and so I never had to really try to find the truth. And the Mormon upbringing has served me well enough over the years. I've never done drugs, alcohol, or cigarettes, and can thank my religion for my freedom from substance addictions. And I can't fault the church completely, because the values and morals have helped me, for certain.

But, it's a hard thing, Shunn -- to be born into absolute truth -- because you never develop the ability to question. We are advised to exercise faith, but I am finding it more and more difficult to discern the dividing line that separates faith from common sense. And so, suddenly, after nineteen years of dutiful Mormonism, I face a massive crisis of faith. It's true that the Church strongly discourages the reading of anti-Mormon material, and for most of my life I have adhered to this tenet. But in my personal search for truth I have used the magical informative tool of the Internet. And late at night, after the family has gone to bed, I've read the stories out there -- the stories of apostasy and contradictions, as well as the stories from those who continue to be devout Latter-Day Saints.

I cannot credit any particular group with causing my questioning doubts, but rather attribute them to everything. I have grown up knowing the Mormon side of the story well (very well, even memorized verbatim, it seems) -- but the search for truth demands the analysis of both sides. And now, after years of believing, I find myself beginning to think.

And what do I think? I wonder what room there is for personal inspiration, for "following one's heart," when the entire pathway through life has already been defined by the higher-ups -- e.g., nineteen-year-old boys are to be on missions, and if your heart leads you to do otherwise then it's in the wrong place. I wonder why, as supposed sons and daughters of God with capacities to feel and think, we are discouraged from so doing -- [encouraged to believe], if the thinking process leads into doubting, that the insidious thoughts have no real merit, having obviously been planted there by a trickster devil.

So the huge conflict of reason springs up. Am I to pursue thinking? Or am I to be too concerned that my disagreements with doctrine are evil ideas? I wonder why there must be only one true path to perfection. What works for me, works for me. But I am an individual, and my tactics may not help you. And so the conflict continues.

I was all set to begin a mission next week, but it has been "indefinitely postponed." There are too many questions unanswered. And beyond the causes for the mission delay, I wonder if I can, in good conscience, preach for two years that there is only one way to God, that you must be baptized into this way, that there are no other alternatives.

Of course, the delay of my mission has caused an incredible amount of concern from friends and family. The natural reacion is to think that I am being led astray. And the concern is touching -- despite the fact that it may be unwarranted, seeing as how I don't plan on committing any crimes or smoking any cigarettes with my newfound freedom. :) But in the meantime, I've applied for re-admission to the university and have enrolled in two summer classes -- American Literature and Philosophy. Reading and learning are two pure joys in my life. I'm determined to pursue them -- to "follow my heart and my mind," and see where it leads me.

I do not denounce the Mormon church -- it has done many good things. And in all likelihood, I may still go on a mission. But I denounce the mode of thinking that I have interpreted in such a way as having caused me to never question truth for nineteen years.

(Go ahead and print up my name and e-mail address. What am I hiding from anyway?)

You're a very brave and thoughtful man, Levi. Whatever you decide, I'm certain it will be a well-considered and appropriate conclusion. Best of luck to you.

from Kevin DeShazer (n██████@a██.com)
29 Mar 96, 8:51 p.m.

I just had the first "rightness chills" I have had in a very long time. They resulted from me realizing, in an instant, why it was so important for me to finally buy a computer. I want to bear my testimony that I now know that part of God's healing plan includes us "bastard" children trying to heal one another's wounds over the Web. Thank you, William, for providing a proper forum for us to participate in. You will be hearing from me again!

You're very welcome, Kevin. Letters like yours help keep me going. Thank you.

from Levi Gunderson (l██████@p███████.com)
30 Mar 96, 6:32 p.m.

"A Passage to Netherheim" -- just read it, Shunn -- good reading. Good job, pal.

Thanks, Levi. (I should point out here for the record that I don't imagine that all Mormons live in outer space . . .)

from Ken Thompson (k███████@a███████.com)
31 Mar 96, 3:54 a.m.

Is this for real? I mean the story about your mission. Can I get dates and stuff so I can go to the library and check it out? This can't be for real.

Yeah, I thought the same thing after they tossed me in the clink. :)

As it says in my narrative, I was arrested on February 23, 1987. Try Canadian papers -- particularly the Calgary Herald or Sun -- for the week thereafter, or Utah papers during the two or three weeks following. If you're looking for legal records, my trial started February 25, 1987, and ended the next day.

next: A Letter from a Friend