No problem, Bonnie. It sounds like a worthy endeavor. I'm sure there are scores of folks here who'd be interested in checking out such a thing. Best of luck.
Okay, people, you heard the woman! Fire up those email apps! Let's get a move on!
I would like to be able to get your entire story without having to download 30 separate files. Can you add the ability to download the entire story to your web site? Or can you send it to me via email?
The prefered format is generic wordprocessing ASCII test. however, however you decide to supply this is fine.
The church is still true, you're welcome to come back.
However I decide to supply it? Okay. I've decided to supply it as 36 separate HTML documents that you have to access one at a time over a world-spanning computer network. (And when my novel The Revivalist comes out, I don't plan to go to the trouble of sending you a special copy of that, either.)
As long as we're getting along so well, what areas did you serve in during your mission?
That out of the way, I'm pleased to inform you that I got a couple of good chuckles out of your article on the Empty Sea. (Keep your day job though, at least for the time being.) We would be happy to have you here in Santa Barbara if you ever get to the West Coast.
Hey, my long-lost brother-in-law whom I've never met! I'd like to write back, but the email address you gave doesn't seem to be working. If you see this, write again. (Hi, Tanja. Are you speaking to me?)
I have struggled for years trying to fit the Mormon mold, but recently have lost the spiritual fortitude to make any effort. Your story changed all of that . . .
As I read of the many times the Lord guided you and others to protect you, it made my heart pound. As you related the connection between your Mom and Dad as he was in Calgary, that she had been praying and had a revelation that everything would be ok, I got goosebumps all over.
It brought tears to my eyes as I read of the kind wisdom of the Judge who was very obviously controlled by the Holy Spririt in meting out a just sentence.
Thank you, Thank you, Thank you Brother Shunn for helping me see the light and leading me back into the fold . . . BBBZZZZZZZZTTTTTTTT . . . . Reality check time. . . Are you ready to vomit yet????
But seriously folks . . . Great story. Hey, I don't have any bone to pick with my Mormon brethren and sistern. Heck, my Mom is one, and all of my family. Even me. Went to Germany on a mission from 74 to 76. Sold vacuum cleaners later in Provo while going to the Y. Same kind of experience. Same answers from people whose privacy we were invading: "I have my own vacuum cleaner."
I plan to spread the word about your Web Site around to others in the family, most of whom have pretty much the same attitude about "the Church" as I do . . . it's ok for them. . .
Look me up if you're ever in San Diego. Would love to sit and chat, break the Word of Wisdom, and bash Republicans. (YOU'RE NOT REPUBLICAN, ARE YOU???)
Incidentally, my oldest son is leaving for Calgary Mission in September. I plan to give him your story to read. I think he'll get a kick out of it. (Why is that kids of apostate Mormons always seem to be better Mormons than their parents? Could it be that the doctrine works better if it isn't crammed down your throat like a lost enema?)
Anyway, great story. Look forward to visiting more of your site in the future.
Oh, jeez, you had my going there for a while! My heart's pounding for real! Good one, brother! :)
I don't make it to San Diego often, but I'd love to chat if I do. (Oh, and by the way, no, I'm not Republican -- only slightly more than I'm not Democrat. But I'll bash them nonetheless.)
You know, there might just be some truth to be flushed out by your "lost enema" theory . . .
You're welcome, and I hope your search bears fruit. Be sure to write again when the time for talking about your experiences. I'd love to hear.
Keep up the good works. you should include links to other good sites like Recovering from Mormonism.
I'm glad you're enjoying the site. If you hop on over to my "Golden Links" page, you'll find some of the links you're looking for, including one to Eric Kettunen's excellent site.
("Great sense of humor, no bitter aftertaste." See what I mean?)
I was reading your glossary and managed to get to "zone" when I was struck with an idea for an addition.
The Zone is a gay sex club in LA where I have met a preponderance of Mormons (ex-Mormons? -- and so far, they've all been studs...is it a Mormon thing?). Zone Activity would, of course, be cruising for sex. Zone Conference would be group sex, and Zone Leader would be the guy who has scored most in the evening.
I have a rather convoluted connection to the Mormon church. Spencer W. Kimball's son, Spencer W. Kimball Jr., a brilliant and acclaimed attorney, wrote the insurance code for the states of Utah and Wisconsin. My mother is a prominent attorney in Wisconsin and knows Spencer W. Kimball Jr. rather well.
My family is not Mormon (they're Catholic ... and I suppose, being gay, that I'm not even that).
I'm rotfling (rolling on the floor laughing) over your glossary additions. You give a whole new meaning to the phrase "missionary companion"!
Gig 'Em Aggies, Beat the Hell (for my sake) outta the B.Y.U. Cougars in the Pigskin Classic one week from Saturday.
By Martin Sheen? The actor?
(So who won the game?)
Can't wait.
I can't wait, either, actually. I'm trying to figure out how it ends. ;)
"I've fallen . . . and I can't get up!" Har, har.
Listen, once I had realized that rock songs and cool movies give me the same "burning in the bosom" that I used to mistake for the Holy Ghost, that ol' testimony started to set itself aside. If Led Zeppelin, Quentin Tarantino, and Joseph Smith were all affecting me in the same way, what did that say about Joseph Smith? All those things being equal, why not explore the world at large, rather than confining myself to some frontier con man's odd notion of a strait and narrow path?
Sing with me now -- you know the tune: "The iron rod is a big restrictive fraud . . ."
I too am a big fan of Sci-Fi. Really had a good time with Orson Scott Card's work. Have you been published yet? Any pending book signings?
Great webpage and I'll be back to follow your past down the "road".
Thanks for the compliment. My science fiction has been published, yes, in some of the field's top magazines. Check out my bibliography for details.
Sadly, the last time %@&@^*!! and I were at a book signing, we were seated next to Terry Brooks. The big queue of people waiting for his autograph more or less obscured us completely from view -- not that anyone was going to ask for our autographs anyway. So I've vowed that there will be no more book signings until I've published an actual novel . . .
Well, thanks, Cecil. I'm genuinely pleased by the compliment.
By the way, a reader recently sent me a list of typos from my narrative, which are all now corrected. Sorry to spoil your fun, but the error is fixed, and I didn't have to hunt for it myself. ;) (Boy, I wish all proofreaders worked for free!)
First, I want to congratulate you -- yours is one of the better personal Web sites I've seen ... a little text-heavy, perhaps, but as a fellow writer, I'm willing to overlook that. :) Your views are of great interest to me; as a convert to the Church who joined in his mid-20s, my experiences have been somewhat different than yours.
I, too, was always somewhat of a social misfit growing up, and have often felt like the proverbial "square peg" in the round hole of Mormon culture -- so I can sympathize with your plight. However, it concerns me that nearly all of the issues you take up with the Church are centered around the Mormon "subculture," as you call it.
I agree that certain individuals within the Church can act petty and small-minded ... and that the Mormon culture can be quite insular at times. But remember, even though the Church (I believe) is divinely inspired, it's made up of people -- ordinary, fallible people. We may seek after spiritual progression, but let's face it: None of us are perfect.
It's important to distinguish the culture that's sprung up around the Church (and which is human-inspired) from the beliefs of the Church itself: the Gospel of Jesus Christ, which is divinely inspired. True, some individuals in the Church can't or won't make that distinction, but that's their folly -- and I'm trying to emulate Christ, not them.
The only question that really matters is: Do you have a testimony of Heavenly Father and Jesus Christ? It seems a great loss to get caught up in the social trappings surrounding the Church, and let that interfere with keeping a testimony and progressing spiritually through the Church.
Of course, I'm sure you have more doctrinally-based issues with the Church as well, but you don't focus on those as much on your site. True, you've stated that that's not the point of your site -- but I believe you're misrepresenting the Church by zeroing in on mostly cultural issues and not acknowledging what's universal to Church members, despite our individual backgrounds ... our beliefs.
I did read your "Mormon Mythology" entry on the Atonement, but I was somewhat confused as to your point. No one in the Church denies that there had to be a Fall in order to enact Heavenly Father's plan. But Lucifer still chose his own path, of his own free will. Neither he nor Judas Iscariot was "coerced" into anything. Heavenly Father may have had foreknowledge that Lucifer would choose as he did, but that's a completely different matter than predestination, which is what you're inferring.
Also, though the Fall was necessary to the Plan of Salvation, there's no logical cause why we should "worship Lucifer." Death, too, is part of the Plan, and while we strive to be acceptant of it, none of us in the Church are rushing out to commit homicide or suicide. (At least none that I know of!)
I'm sure I'm oversimplifying your argument, but perhaps we can discuss it at greater length sometime ... I've probably already worn you out with this entry. Again, excuse the extreme length of this message, but I love to dish doctrine :), and these matters are clearly still important to you, as well.
I wish you luck on your search for enlightenment. Remember, though: Sometimes the truth we seek is closer to home than we realize.
Okay, the point of my essay was to demonstrate the logical absurdity -- at least as I see it -- of Mormon cosmology. The Church teaches that there had to be a Fall, and that therefore there had to be someone evil to oppose God's plan. This means that, even if all of God's children wanted to be good and obey him and live in glory forever, things could never have turned out that way. Someone had to rebel, and this means that free agency does not have free rein in the Mormon universe. This is one of the many doctrinal problems I have with the Church.
For the record, I have to point out that I never said anything about worshipping Lucifer in that essay. I said we might owe him thanks for his part in the rebellion against God, but that's hardly the same thing as worship.
To stir up a fresh nest of rattlers -- and share something I've been wrestling with since about the age of six -- I would contend that any philosophical system in which there exists a God who can have perfect foreknowledge of our thoughts and actions is a system which does not allow us complete freedom of will. Only if we are capable of surprising God do we truly have free will, and I'm not certain that Mormon doctrine allows for that, either.
I think it is admirable that you decided to follow your heart and do what you think is correct. I am of the LDS faith and am Mormon as well (not "as well" as you, but you'll understand what I mean if you continue reading) I use both words because one I associate with culture (Mormon)and the other I associate with internal deep felt beliefs (LDS). There is indeed a lot of pressure inside the Mormon (culture) Church to conform. I feel it daily and am guilty of exerting that same kind of pressure on my younger sybling (He left his mission early because he didn't like much of the hypocracy that is evident there). I have since apologized to him for such action. Anyway, I feel bad for many Mormons who think they have to conform. If they would just stop and think about their beliefs a bit they would recognize they can choose. Maybe their beliefs will lead them out of the fellowship, maybe, overtime they will draw them closer -- that seems to be my experience. If I have patience and think, ponder, and pray I come up with the correct answer (or at least I feel it is correct). I would encourage all who read this page to do the same. Some will agree while others do not, but a decision like that should not be made in an instant.
Personally, some things taught by the Culture make me angry. Some things which are doctrine I don't understand and don't necessarily agree with at this point in time. That is where faith is important. I will keep studying dilegently and if the answers I get don't agree with how I understand the doctrine then I'll have to change my views. No individual can say with 100 percent certainty that any gospel or belief (scientific or religious) is true in this lifetime. If life ceases after death, you wont care nor have the ability to say so. Even what I'm saying now cannot be proven 100% true. It is the nature of life.
In one of the replies you wrote that you don't agree with the golden rule. I'm sorry you feel that way. For me, that is my number one rule in religion and life. Treat others how you want them to treat you. Nobody deserves to be treated like dirt. We all have value. (Sorry, that really doesn't apply to your pages at all, but I had to say it). I consider myself to be on the very liberal edge of "Mormonism" (here I refer to culture and doctrine) and would very much like to correspond directly with you. I dedicate at least an hour a week to learning others beliefs, including different religions as well as personal philosophies, in order to compliment my beliefs and enhance my life.
I think overall, your page is good considering the audience to whom you are writing. I pray (OK, so I don't actually pray for it, just a cultural expression) that those who read your articles will realize that the things here may be true for you and for many other individuals but that they are not absolute truth (See above comments). Latter Day Saints as well as non-Latter Day Saints should make the commitment to "JUDGE IT RIGHTEOUSLY" JST Translation or avoid judging it at all. Good Resource!
PS. I didn't read your mission stories, in fact I read probably only a fourth of the material on your page, but there are a lot of crazy and wrong and right things that do develop during the course of one's mission. I'll have to read them sometime in the future.
Have a great day. Please reply if you get a chance, I'd like to talk with you.
Oh, I am an English Major, but I really suck at spelling and my grammatical and organizational skills went on vacation this summer as well. Please excuse and correct any mistakes you may encounter.
I would like to hear the end of your apostasy story.
I can't disagree with most of what you've said -- you have a wider and more accepting philosophy than most Mormons I know. However, you misunderstand me if you think my rejection of the Golden Rule equates to advocacy of treating other people "like dirt." The Golden Rule may work passably well as a default assumption for how to treat others, but I think it ultimately falls short. I believe that adherence to the Golden Rule promotes a false worldview in which every other person shares your own same desires and feelings. It causes other people's unique needs and preferences to be disregarded or ignored.
Here's an example. Imagine, if you will, that you're the sort of manly man who likes to joke around with his friends -- to tease them with good-humored insults and receive the same treatment in return. Let's say that such treatment makes you feel accepted and liked. Now let's say that you meet someone new who doesn't particularly enjoy being teased and jokingly insulted -- such treatment makes him feel bad about himself, even if the intent is friendly. Should you treat him the way you would want to be treated, and insult him anyway? Or should you take the time to understand that he doesn't like being teased, and adjust your behavior toward him accordingly? If you took the second choice -- as most people probably would -- then you'll see that the Golden Rule falls flat on its face.
I'm curious to know how a religion that holds out no comforting promise of afterlife manages to survive for so long. That's a fascinating characteristic of Judaism that had never been pointed out to me before. Thanks for writing.
it is not my place to be your judge. I am a less than active RM myself though I probably got home intime to have been your parrent.. Good luck in your future, remember even Oliver Cowdery was away for a good while and should you work at it you could be back (unless you are a MURDERER, or Worse)
I hope we both make it....
I hope we both make it, too -- but to a Heaven that doesn't resemble the Celestial Room in the Salt Lake Temple. If they won't play Steely Dan on the loudspeakers, I don't want to be there. ;)
(By the way, I was never in insurance sales. I did work for an insurance brokerage until recently, but I was a technical writer -- strictly back-office stuff. I'm now a computer programmer at Wanderlust Interactive, and quite happy about the change, thank you very much.)
"Christianity is a religion for losers." --Ted Turner
Tell me about it. (Apply this to either of the above sentiments.)
http://www.kdcol.com/~kcundick/prayer.html
I wish you the best.
Well, I scanned through the Benson address you recommended. "After making a request through prayer, we have a responsibility to assist in its being granted"? Oh, of course. Because if we didn't assist, then the prayer wouldn't be answered, and we'd stop believing in prayer. "If we don't feel like praying, then we should pray until we feel like praying"? Jeez Louise, ol' E.T. should have named this address How to Brainwash Yourself in Four Easy Steps. Puh-leez.
Thanks for the entertaining link, but as for me and my house, we'll toss away that magic feather and fly under our own power.
