Voices from the Dust: June 1996
previous: Voices from the Dust: May 1996
from an anonymous reader (/dust/1996/06/voices-from-the-dust-june-1996.html)
6 Jun 96, 4:43 p.m.
I howled. Your story of Canadian terrorism got me through a truly awful three hour corporate conference call. I'm an ex-Mormon as well. I wouldn't say an apostate though. That just sounds like too much energy for what I feel towards the Mormons and their church. Somewhere down the road between return missionary (Barcelona, Spain 1982) and adult, I just walked away and decided to see what life was really like. The walk ended-up in Paris. Its a cool town, but a long way from Kansas.
By the way, the best gyros in SLC are at Kosta's on 13th east.
You howled during your conference call? Um, how did you explain that? :)
Never been to Kosta's, I'm afraid. I swear by the Greek Shishkabob at 3rd West and 6th North, but I'd give a Kosta's gyro a whirl if ever I find myself back at the Crossroads of the West.
from Mat Dastrup (m███@f████.net)
7 Jun 96, 3:27 p.m.
You rascal! Don't tell my Bishop, but I enjoyed your tales/confessions immensely. I must confess that I really don't understand your apostasy, but that did not prevent my appreciation of your site. I'll even admit to a chuckle or two as I read your glossary of terms. Best of luck in your career in SF. The world needs more artists.
I never understood apostasy myself -- until I did it.
from Luke Anthony Bird (1█████.████@c█████████.com)
7 Jun 96, 4:51 p.m.
Its been a blessing to hear your stories. I have been witnessing to the mormons here, there trying to show me the truth. But they dont understand I know the truth. Boy, I have been fending them biblicly for two weeks now. They are so brainwashed it really sad. Boy that false prophet really caused a following. You know there not to blame, there loving and kind people, But I hate to say this but this is sorta a bad example but, I can compare homos with them, U see the homo believes in his heart and well being hes right, no matter what they say. Same with them. They are totaly in the dark. Blinded to the truth. But all I can say is to invite Christ into your life body and soul. And stick to the truth. The Bible. Its simple. They need to follow up on the orgin of the church, Godbless.
Yes, Luke, boy oh boy, it really is sad to see people so deeply brainwashed. Here's hoping you get lots of email telling you just how sad it really is. (You homophobic twit.)
from Mariah and Carey (p████@i█████.com)
15 Jun 96, 3:50 p.m.
okay get ready to listen up. i know that you probably get a lot of letters asking to be published- but please please please publish this.
okay- in the Bible the real one and only one- it says not to add to the Bible or to take anything away. I believe that the book of mormon (notice the lower cased letters) is adding on- actually i know it is. it says that a man named john smith was spoken to by the Lord Jesus Christ and was commanded to write the rest of the Bible and that it was to be called the book of mormon. recently i saw a commercial on the book of mormon. well that is totally FALSE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! i feel sorry for the mormons who were tricked into following and reading the book of mormon- to me and the rest of the people i know -millions- it's wrong. i believe what God says in His Bible not john smith's...
the New International Version
REVELATION 22:18 & 19
18. I warn everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: If anyone adds anything to them, God will add him to the plagues described in this book.
19. And if anyone takes words away from this book of prophecy, God will take away from him his share in the tree of life and in the holy coty, which are described in this book.
20. He who testifies these things says, "Yes, I am coming soon." Amen. Come, Lord Jesus.
21. The grace of the Lord Jesus be with God's people. Amen
Mariah. And Carey.
Gosh, yes, that John Smith was such a bad man, wasn't he! And the only difference between, um, John and you is that he pretended he was a prophet when he was a teenager, instead of an insufferably cute and soulful pop singer. Now go read the Kama Sutra or something, and stay away from that Bible. It's dangerous.
from Jim Bradly (/dust/1996/06/voices-from-the-dust-june-1996.html)
16 Jun 96, 10:49 p.m.
i am 15 and mormon. I know that the church is true. and honestly i really do respect your opinion, if it wasn't for the fact that you are so busy trying to convince your self that it's not. oh and by the way don't look, beacuse you are doing exactly what the prophets said people like you would be doing in the last days
Ah, yes -- being persecuted by the Saints as they grow prideful and complacent. That's what the Book of Mormon's all about, right?
from Laverne (l██████@m███.███.net)
17 Jun 96, 7:03 p.m.
I've just gone online several days ago and have no idea what I'm doing. I would love to be able to get feedback from another human out there to prove to myself that I've done something right up to this point. I am a writer, primarily of first person satirical essays, but have been known to write seriously also. I've just had my first two essays accepted (after roughly thirty some rejections) and would love to speak with someone about how to get where I want to be - published, to use an agent or not to use an agent, self publishing, etc. Please get in touch with me.
Well, it certainly does look like you've done something right up to this point. We're way behind schedule here, but maybe by now you've discovered some of the many discussion and support groups for writers on the Internet. Best of luck.
from Kevin J. Bernatz (/dust/1996/06/voices-from-the-dust-june-1996.html)
18 Jun 96, 4:34 a.m.
I wish to heck I could sit and talk with you face to face. Not only do you seem like the kind of guy who would just crack me up, but you're fascinating and quick. I also wish I could express to you in person, the feelings of my heart.
I read your story about the bomb threat, as well as a couple other sites of yours on Mormonism. There is no possible argument against your writing abilities. I was sad to see the end of the story come so soon.
However, (you knew there would be one), I was saddend because I felt as though a comrad on the battle field had fallen beside me. I heard you desregard and kind of belittle things like blessings, prayer, inspiration, and divine intervention - things which I know with every fiber of my being are Heavenly Father's way of dealing with us on this earth. I also know His pain from what you are writing far exceeds anything I have felt.
Here, finally, is my weakly expressed point; In the story about the Canadian bomb threat, you said your self you did not want to talk to anyone you felt would engage you in a spiritual conversation, and I don't remember you ever saying you fasted and prayed about your doubts. For what it's worth, that is about the only way I ever worked through my doubts. Heck, He is the one I am wondering about. I asked Him. I feel you have a superior intelligence. Certainly to mine, but there is a danger in that in that you can more easily rationalize your way in and out of comfortable frames of thought.
Please accept my challenge, without using your smarts to find a way around it, to communicate, not pray, but communicate with your Father in Heaven and ask Him if you are on the right path, or if He has chosen the Mormon church, (imperfect mortals and all), to convey what he wants us to know through fasting and prayer.
I am not a shrink, but after reading some of your works, I sense resentment. Maybe over what happend to you. Maybe because there were things you wanted more than life itself since as far back as you can remember and for one reason or another the Lord didn't give them to you, I don't know. But I do think you do.
In reading other letters you have published by devout Mormons I felt bad because of there snotty, superior tones. I sure hope I don't come off that way. I just wanted to tell you I felt, well, love while I read your pieces. For you. I know, I am way out on the corny limb now, but listen. I will be praying with all my heart you take my challenge and have a spiritual experience. I know you have the intillectual ability to degrade all I have said above, but I ask that you don't.
I believe your Father in Heaven needs you back on the battle field. It's getting pretty ugly, but he pays better than the leader of the other army...
I prayed long and hard at a major crossroad in my life, Kevin -- and the answer I received, the burning in my bosom, ran counter to every principle the Church ever taught me. As a result I now "live in sin" in New York City. (We're skipping ahead in "The Road to Apostasy" here, but so be it.) As a result, I now believe that what my teachers called the still, small voice of the Holy Ghost was really nothing more than my own fondest wishes speaking to me from within the prison of my heart. Sorry, you seem sincere, but it's either that or God's nothing like they painted him in church.
from Michael (p███████@t██.com)
19 Jun 96, 4:53 p.m.
I find it a very simple and unimaginative way of LDS bashing, when you design a web page that is obviously misleading, and misrepresenting of the what the church stands for. You seem to have a great disrepect for the church and all of its members. I feel your cowardousness when I read your opinions of the church. You make your point very well that the church, in your opinion, is a place of oppresion, and communisum. But I don't see any links to pro Mormon Pages on your site.
You seem to resent the church and it's members for your mission in Canada. You feel they pressured you to go to the north and preach their words (not yours), and drag the brain dead into their cultish practice...Well being a Former Mormon, sorry to hear, you should know more than anyone that lies where and still are spread about the church everyday... Did you just fall weak of the opposition, and decide to join them in their ways. I can see in your writing your weakness for leadership qualities, you are definatly a follower, in my opinion. You bash the LDS in the same way others have for longer than you have been alive. You are not doing anything others haven't tried... The only thing you can WISH to accomplish by your Web Page, is to stop people, who would never have become members in the first place, from become members...Doesn't seem like such a big task, does it...But then again not many followers ever amount to much more than boring the leaders of the world. No matter what any critic of the church will ever say, the church is true. What I mean by true is that the Lord's church has been restored. It will never be taken off the earth and it will continue to grow. Critics like yourself will always have things to say, but it will NOT pursuade those that are trully seeking for the truth. If you trully feel the need to continue with this sad and shameful action, by golly, continue, But we on this earth are not the ones who will have to answer, or pay, for your actions on that great or dreadful day of the Lord.
There are individual Mormons for whom I have a great deal of respect -- my friend J. Scott Bronson is a prime example. And there are some that make me ill -- by golly.
And I have, in fact, linked to what ought to be the greatest pro-Mormon resource of all. Visit my "Golden Links" page, and you'll find the URL for the official L.D.S Church Web site listed right there at the top. Of course, it's not my fault that there's nothing there yet . . .
(So which is it? Great or dreadful?)
from l████@a██.net
19 Jun 96, 11:03 p.m.
No After Glow, no Osmonds...really Bill, one would think that you've lost that loving feeling. But what really upset me is the absence of Country and Western. And to think we let you live among us for 2 years here on the Canadian Prairies. I did see some Canadian artists represented. Good for you. Maybe some day we will see fit to let you back into our fair country...but please Bill, leave your bombs at home!
Hey, I do have Lyle Lovett and k.d. lang . . . but anyway, I only got to stay in Canada for six months before you crazy Canucks kicked me out, not two years. Is it any wonder the indoctrination didn't take?
from Danna (/dust/1996/06/voices-from-the-dust-june-1996.html)
21 Jun 96, 2:38 a.m.
As a psychologist, and a neighbor of a mormon, I am facinated by your web site. I started reading because I wanted to know more about my neighbors. I can't even begin to fathom the anger and hatred you hold inside. It reminds me a lot of the film, "Triumph of the Will" made in 1939 (German film) You should check it out. You are certainly similar to the main character. Sugar coating and all.
I wonder why someone would put so much time and energy into such a negative effort. You hide under the guise of wit and sarcsm and want everyone to know how odd mormons are. You should really do some research on other world religions, and learn to respect for people of all cultures.
For instance, mormons that don't drink caffinated drinks are so weird. Well, I had one hell of an ovarian cyst explode on me. I had to be hospitalized and my non-mormon doctor told me that caffine causes cysts in women, and I could no longer drink it. So long Dr. Pepper and Earl Grey. Why is that so odd. Couldn't you say that a country such as India, with millions of starving people, practice a sane form of worship--the cow!
We now live in a society of perpetual victims. Our lousy lives are always the result of someone else. Get over it!! Move on!! Get counseling!!! Do you think your the first person to ever feel shafted by an organized religion!? What is truly sad it that it took you so long to leave. Your parents didn't teach you how to think and have a spine, and now you are retaliating and lashing out on the most obvious factor. Go back and try to remember when you first had doubts or felt like living a healthy life style. What events were happening. Did you feel like you had control? Your issues are lack of self esteem, not the mormon church. People who are unhappy in their lives, lash out. You have a cancer and it will continue to fester as long as you write your witty sarcasms and revealing truths.
Finally, it really hurts me to read such vast material of hatred toward a religion. I lost an aunt and uncle in Nazi concentration camps. I never knew them, I am to young, but our family tries to remember them when we come into contact with people who have different beliefs. I know you can't raise armies to bring down the entire mormon population, but by providing an area for people bashing and cultral criticism you are perpetuating the hatred that is tearing our communities apart. In that you claim to be a writer, I sincerly hope that you will use you talents to bring people together. Respect yourself by respecting others.
Good Luck in all your endeavors. I hope to see something new in the future.
As a psychologist, you can smugly compare me with Hitler and then accuse me of hate-mongering? Jeez, did you get your license in Israel, or what?
The last thing I would ever advocate is violence against Mormons. My advice is to avoid joining the Mormon Church, not to avoid Mormons themselves or -- God forbid! -- to kill them. You've got a raw nerve there, babe, and it sounds like it shrieks every time the breeze blows past it. I'd get help for that.
from Teresa Nielsen Hayden (t██@t██.com)
23 Jun 96, 12:53 a.m.
Alta Vista as auto-egoscan: doesn't everybody do it? Which led me to your letters page, wherein I found your remark that my essay had had some kind of effect on your decision.
Well. My goodness. Thank you. Glad it did.
No, thank you, Teresa. "God and I" allowed me to start looking at "sacred" things with a bit more of an overtly critical eye. (We still need to get together for that coffee sometime.)
from Wendy (b█████@g██.███.███████.edu)
27 Jun 96, 11:36 p.m.
At least now, after reading the movie script, I know my missionary will be in good hands. Or actually, can't be in good hands! woo hoo!
I wouldn't get too complacent. My script didn't tell anything like the whole story. Remember, it was written to film and send home to our families -- it's wasn't intended as a true-to-life mission exposé. I don't know exactly how many missionaries became involved with women at one time or another in my mission, but the number was definitely high. I knew several elders who were sent home for such things, but most of the highjinks went unseen and unreported. I myself had a dalliance with a sister missionary, and on one occasion we rendezvoused at two in the morning to make out. My trainer regaled me with stories of how he and his previous companion had met two sister missionaries for steamy "double dates" in a Calgary city park. Another companion of mine was conducting an affair with a 14-year-old girl in the small town where we served -- with her family's approval. (He was a missionary, after all -- he couldn't have had dishonorable intentions.)
No, the mission field is an artificially repressive environment, and the chances of any given elder ending up in "good hands" -- even with the most upstanding intentions -- are not so remote as one might hope.
from Dayl Brinkman (d██@a█████.com)
28 Jun 96, 5:42 p.m.
I really enjoyed your mission experience story. I find your writing style very engaging. I read all 34 chapters in two days (stealing spare moments at work and home). It was especially interesting to me because I served in the BC mission from '88 to '90 and my little brother is just getting back from the Ontario mission next month. I was ocassionally struck with your powerful cynicism about the whole thing. We were only 19, what could you expect?
I'm sorry the church didn't satisfy you. I hope you have found greater happiness elsewhere.
I'm cynical about the bureaucracy that exploits those 19-year-old kids, Dayl, not about the 19-year-old kids themselves, or about having been one.
And I have found greater happiness, thanks. (Of course, it didn't take much.)
from Warren L. Weisman (w█████@w██████.net)
29 Jun 96, 9:47 p.m.
Brother, I'm with you in wanting to free people's minds from any sort of dogma. As a philosophy student I've concluded there's two major difficulties with attacking anyone's religion: first, for most people it is not open to discussion; second, that people who've lived for any number of years under a belief have a very hard time adjusting to "disbelief". So, good luck, but be careful, respectively.
Oh, I always watch my back around here . . .
from an anonymous reader (/dust/1996/06/voices-from-the-dust-june-1996.html)
30 Jun 96, 9:04 p.m.
Thoroughly enjoyed "Terror on Flight 789"!
I'm an active Mormon, so it saddens me that you were not able to gain a testimony of the church -- but I won't preach about it, since I'm sure you've heard it all before.
Good luck in your future endeavors.
P.S. Do you still believe in God? Do you actively persecute the LDS church, or do you just feel sorry for us?
Yes, I actively persecute the L.D.S. Church. I'm hoping maybe I can provoke God into personally recruiting me back onto the team, like he did with Saul and Alma the Younger. ;)
Seriously, it all depends on what you mean by persecution. Is it persecution to call someone's beliefs into question? If you're that sensitive, then I suppose I am persecuting you. But beyond that point, I stand down.
I don't feel sorry for the bulk of Mormondom. If you're happy with your faith, by all means cling to it. I do feel sorry, however, for the folks who are being harmed by the pressure to conform to the L.D.S. ideal. Those are the ones I'd like to reach.
